NCNM or OCOM?? Portland students, pls advise!

[jen779]

My fiancee and I are relocating to Portland, OR this spring, and I've been checking out acupuncture/OM schools there, namely OCOM and NCNM. I've been doing research on this board, and checking out the schools' websites, but I wanted to get some current student opinions on each school if possible. Or opinions from prospective students who toured/looked at either school.

I have been leaning towards NCNM because I'm intrigued by the classical approach (Before deciding to move, I was looking at Tri-State in NYC, which emphasizes more of a classical approach as well). Tri-State, at least in the admissions open house, was openly critical of TCM, and also NCNM seems to insinuate that TCM is inferior to Classical acupuncture. I know there's a lot of debate going on in the boards about TCM vs CCM, and I'm not looking to open that up again necessarily....my question is, specifically, are the advantages to learning a CCM approach worth the extra expense and time it takes to study at NCNM? In tuition payments alone, NCNM looks to be about $12,000 more than OCOM. Plus it is a 4 year, rather than 3 year program.

So the lower price alone makes me consider OCOM, but will studying at a primarily TCM-based school like OCOM give me enough knowledge, expertise, and comfortability to go on to pursue an acupuncture career with the best capabilities for healing? On this board, as well as in the opinions of schools like Tri-State and NCNM, a running opinion seems to be that TCM is an education with holes and gaps in it. Yet students seem to really enjoy OCOM and its TCM approach, right?

I'm going to visit both schools, and very likely apply to both. But if there are students at either school on this board, I'd really love to hear your thoughts on why you chose your school and not the other. Especially because Portland is a small place and it's interesting that the 2 acupuncture schools seem to REALLY vary in approach.

Thanks Sooo much!! 

[naturaldoc]

Jen,

I have posted a lot on the issue of finding a school and the process that students need to consider before joining up.  Please read through some of the other posts on this site that speak to the education issue.  There are no perfect programs and students need to understand that in order to be the best they can be, they must be willing to continue to read, learn and attend outside seminars.  School will only take you so far.  It is good to ask for students opinions but I have found it better to put in the time and investigate things according to your own likes and dislikes.  Your final decision will more accurately reflect more of what you want in a program. 

Just curious, how did you come up with these choices, for example?  Are you limited to OR?  If you are wanting a deeper education, have you looked at Seattle Inst of OM? 

These are both decent programs but very different according to focus, as you mention.  I like the idea of classical study yet have heard from a student that the clinic internship may have been less then desirable.  Also keep in mind that the NCCAOM and CAB, both test on TCM theory and application.  These exams are used for licensing.  It does not mean you will not do well on these exams, just a tidbit of info for consideration as to theoretical variations.  Also keep in mind that just because one attends a TCM program does not mean that they cannot learn more from the Chinese classics.  By the way, that is exactly what I have been doing now for many years and really am enjoying the process.  During the last fifteen years since graduation, there has also been many more texts printed in English as well.  Learning basic concepts will greatly aid you in whichever program you attend.  You might find some good books to get started with sooner rather then later. 

[jen779]

Thanks for your response, naturaldoc. I have actually been reading quite a bit about choosing schools, and have seen your name posting some of the most helpful information on this board. I am also hearing, generally, that however limited a TCM-centric education may or may not be, it provides a firm grounding in Chinese medicine and a launch pad to get things started. I definitely don't expect to garner all of my knowledge from a school program; given how ancient, extensive, and in-depth Chinese medicine is as a whole, it seems to call for a lifetime of learning, study, and application.

I was asking about Portland schools specifically because my fiancee and I are moving there, for a variety of reasons. If our relocation plans were up in the air, I would definitely consider other schools nationwide. But Portland it is, hence my interest in NCNM and OCOM.

It sounds like either school would be a good choice and get me started on my journey. You're right that now it comes down to me -- my own preferences and opinions about what program is best for me, and which one I jive with the most. That said, I'm definitely interested still in collecting student opinions and weighing them as part of my research into this fascinating profession...thanks again 

[naturaldoc]

Jen,

It sounds like you have a good plan and that is golden. 

Good to contact students, meet with faculty and tour the school.  Maybe you should consider making a T-list, like I have suggested to many other students as a tool in your decision making process.  You can add in as many things as you want, as long as the important ones get covered, then great.  I would also suggest you print out a copy of both catalogs as well as a copy of the CA Acupuncture requirements for making comparisons for this T-list.  Now you might ask why this?  The reason here is that it will give you some guidelines as to what a program should have in place for CA recognition.  CA tends to have the toughest requirements so this can be helpful, both schools are also CA-approved. 

If you create your T-list, please include such things as student parking, student resources, lounge, neighborhood, crime, etc.  Some of these things will not be known until you vist each school.  Please consider living near the school if possible as it saves a lot of time and gas, during your education.  Is one school neighborhood that much better then another, and is this important?  Can you attend school and work, if you need to?  Is your class schedule allowing of that?  How accessible are your teachers and do they have full-time practices outside of school? 

Please start a file of concepts or ideas as well as a collection of stationery/business cards, websites, intake forms sooner rather then later.  Having time and these resources will help to jumpstart your practice.  Too many students wait until they graduate to start this process, momentum is no longer on your side if you wait till then.  This is your future livelihood, so please take it seriously. 

Glad you found the info useful. 

[jen779]

Great suggestions, thanks! I am excited to tour the schools this spring and start making lists, both mental and on paper. Thanks again!

[naturaldoc]

Jen,

You might want to get those catalogs, print out the CA requirements and start your T-list before you move, that way you will be ready to go when you get there.  Just a thought. 

[Azburry]

Hi Jen,

I am a 2nd year student at NCNM. I move here 3 years ago with the intention of going to NCNM and never looked at OCOM (so I have nothing to say about how the two compare). I am very happy with my education at NCNM. There are points when I wonder if I am getting a classical education or not but that is because we have to learn TCM for the boards as well as CCM. Those few times aside, I am starting to learn how to think in classical way. My top 3 reasons to go to NCNM are the classical texts classes, the qi gong program, the amazing teachers.

The classical texts series is 3 years and 10 courses long where you study and translate the classical texts. This series is one of the highlights of my education! While it was pointed out that you that there are many English versions of the classics, the translations even the best fail to capture what all the is included in the characters. Even if you chose not to take these elective classes, the classics are emphasized in each class.

The qi gong program is a required 3 years of study starting in the first year. We learn and practice forms from the Jin Jin Gong school of qi gong. Each term there an intensive retreat where we learn a new form that we will practice that term.

Check out the teachers at NCNM- Dr. Edward Neal, Dr. Paul Kalnins, Brandt Stickley, Heiner Fruehauf, Dr. Haosheng Zhang, Dr. Xioali Chen, Dr. Long, and there are many more outstanding faculty members. Several of these teachers have blogs or websites.

Time to get back to studying! Hope this helps.

[naturaldoc]

JC,

That is really going to depend upon what your friend is wanting in her education and what lengths she is willing to go through to get that education.  There are many decent programs out there but many times the student does not live near them.  Now it is up to the student to make the move as the school is not going to come to the student. 

Portland appears to be a forward centered city and very nice to live in.  They also appear to be supportive generally of our profession, with many pro health citizens using acupuncture and CM to keep themselves healthier.  Portland also has two fairly well known programs of CM, NCNM and OCOM.  There has been a lot of discussion on this forum about the trend to get back to a more classical understanding of CM.  For different reasons, I would consider both programs to be good.  If one is interested in an education that is more classically based, then I would check out NCNM. 

Other then this, you and your friend are welcome to post questions related to Chinese medicine.  We will do our best to answer them. 

[syouner]

Naturaldoc, your suggestions are always helpful when I look at my present and future acupuncture education, but what is a T List? I'm guessing its some sort of decision  making aid.  Could you enlighten us a bit?  Thanks, S

[naturaldoc]

S,

Thanks for asking, I guess I had neglected to share this info.  Sorry for my omission on this topic. 

A T list is a tool for making comparisons and describes its shape as a capital "T".  Across the top you have say two schools of interest.  Let us assume that you are interested in NCNM and OCOM.  These go on the top.  Down the left side you would write what is important for consideration, in this case for your school choice.  Your concerns could be about class size, scholarships. quality of courses, faculty education, course electives, other styles, city safety, nearby housing, etc.  As both program are already CAB approved, you would not necessarily need to include that, unless you plan to compare the same criteria with other possible programs.  Hope this helps below is an example.


____________________________________NCNM_____________________________________OCOM________
1) CA approved program                              Yes                                                                    Yes
2) Housing nearby                                       Yes                                                                    Yes
3) Oriental medicine curriculum                     Yes                                                                     Yes

Or you can create a T list of each school and simply have yes vs no for each question you feel is important.  This would allow you to compare each program with similar criteria.